Empowered by Anger?

[shades]

i don't think an easy fix exists to any of this, but i'm glad the 12 steps are helping you. another thing that helps me some with feelings i don't like is to name them and accept them in my head (e.g. "I'm feeling ashamed and afraid and hurt and vulnerable right now"). it seems to help ease the intensity some because usually when i feel something uncomfortable i try to avoid it and that just increases the discomfort. walking into the feelings and accepting the fact (or just stating the fact) that i am having them, while also being aware of my actual surroundings ("i am feeling angry right now, and i am also sitting in this room with yellow walls and i can see a tree and a bird out the window") helps me relax about it some.

[MakersDozn]

shades....that is a good suggestion. I'm not comfortable with it, because I'd rather that my feelings stay an amorphous blur so that I have a reason to hold my ground. Obviously that's not healthy, so I'll keep your suggestion in mind.

Rachel

[Tangled Web]

(07-14-2012, 05:20 PM)shades Wrote: i think anger is very helpful to give us strength, energy, motivation when needed. and it also is very powerful in keeping us distanced from other people. that might have been an important survival skill in the past. but it keeps us distanced from those feelings of connection and love that make life enjoyable instead of just something to survive. anger makes us less vulnerable, but being vulnerable is the only way to get to some of the most important parts of positive human experience.

but being vulnerable is the only way to get to some of the most important parts of positive human experience.

what are the most important parts of positive human experience?
Vicki-12

[shades]

well... probably everyone gets to find their own answer to that question. the parts of positive human experience i was talking about were things like loving someone, feeling loved, wanted, nurtured, cared about, worthwhile to one or more other humans. caring about other people in those same ways, nurturing someone else. having a sense of belonging. feeling deeply connected to and understood by someone else.

all those things take vulnerability. so in some ways, even though being vulnerable can be terrifying, vulnerability can actually be a good thing. and anger shuts down vulnerability like a steel trap.

at least that's what i've started to think in the past couple years.

[sharon/treehouse family]

Rachel,

I see both sides, One side anger causes us to move and make changes and gives us that energy to drive that change. But, on the other side it can be so crippling that it ends up causing pain and unwanted results leaving us with helplessness, hopelessness, and devastation.

very good topic, I'm glad you asked it. thank you

take care..

Kathleen

[MakersDozn]

(07-24-2012, 09:59 PM)sharon/treehouse family Wrote: But, on the other side it can be so crippling that it ends up causing pain and unwanted results leaving us with helplessness, hopelessness, and devastation.

Yes, that would be very accurate.

Thank you.

Rachel

[nats]

(07-18-2012, 07:28 PM)shades Wrote: so in some ways, even though being vulnerable can be terrifying, vulnerability can actually be a good thing. and anger shuts down vulnerability like a steel trap.

so maybe that's why we're angry all the time, defending against scary vulnerability. hmmmm..... thanks shades.

[Kathleen]

(07-18-2012, 07:28 PM)shades Wrote: ...the parts of positive human experience i was talking about were things like loving someone, feeling loved, wanted, nurtured, cared about, worthwhile to one or more other humans. caring about other people in those same ways, nurturing someone else. having a sense of belonging. feeling deeply connected to and understood by someone else.

I agree here. I think that the positive human experiences you have described here require somewhat of an "open heart" - and that's why it feels so vulnerable. In order to let in the good feelings - like love - you have to open the castle gates so to speak, and that allows in feelings like hurt.

re: Anger. In the past I have noticed that I "do" anger over some of the other emotions for the primary reason that anger makes me "less vulnerable". I sort of used anger as a "cover up" feeling. If I identified with the anger, I would not feel the pain of the hurt so much. Feeling angry - "Being Angry" - was a way of putting up my hands and stopping someone - "that's close enough", it might signal.

I do think that anger by itself is just a feeling. A hot, visceral feeling that I don't like something (only stronger than that!) What I *DO* with the anger is what makes it empowering for me or just frustrating. If I use the heat - the "energy" to do something to make a change, then I find it empowering. If I just use it to seethe, and glare and become generally unfit for company, then, well, I become unfit for company. LOL And that is sometimes a good thing!

MD - I have done twelve step programs before and found them quite useful and therapeutic. Rather like free therapy. Also like therapy in that you get out what you put in, in many ways.

One of my favority parts of Alanon was the Serenity Prayer:

Quote:Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

[MakersDozn]

(08-05-2012, 11:02 AM)Kathleen Wrote: MD - I have done twelve step programs before and found them quite useful and therapeutic. Rather like free therapy. Also like therapy in that you get out what you put in, in many ways.

One of my favority parts of Alanon was the Serenity Prayer:

Quote:Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

Kathleen,

Thank you for such a thorough reply. Yes, we have twelve-step literature and have been reading it lately. It does help, although we also realize that the issues still need a great deal of work in in therapy. We're doing this as well.

Rachel

[Unity]

In one article posted on the site they explain the difference between rage and anger, already they make distinction in the sense anger is intentional and still intent of communication and a rather conscious process, whereas rage is the opposite and linked to parasympathetic system and so in itself paradoxally rage is more stopping of some cognitive/behavioral function and is aimed primarily at suppressing/annihiling something.

And definatly this state of rage can be something powerful, the body can have tons of reaction of preparation also in order to face an aggression, and this still greatly increase chance of survival, and as it shut down lot of more evolved process, it make every reaction faster, better perception, dilated pupills etc, all those stuff can be life savers in themselves under some condition.

For me the best thing to handle this well is with self defense sport, but there it doesn't become about hurting other, but neutralizing a threat, or gaining control on the situation, without hurting peoples, and having good training in that kind of things can help much better if you need to face some aggression, and still not being an aggressor yourself, and still feeling safe in case of potential aggression, the whole principle of this kind of martial art is to use the aggressor strength, so it only works to defend against aggression, i find the principle fit much better within me than in order to really hurt a person. In a way you don't even have to ask if the threat is real or not because if you have to use that kind of thing it mean there is a threat going on, so even in state of rage or weird zone you know everyone is on the safe side and that is something bad happen to someone through practice of jujitsu or self defense it mean it's only it's own impulse that has been used/returned again him

[MakersDozn]

Unity,

Thanks for replying. We're not athletic or physically inclined. Despite suggestion from both our current T and our previous T, releasing anger by gross-motor physical methods does not work for us. In fact, we get even angrier at the notion of being made to do something that we feel is counterintuitive.

We're big on focusing on doing something constructive, no matter how little. We also like talking with people (such as our T and people in forums like this) who understand the importance of working through feelings. And we like popping bubble wrap.

MDs

[Unity]

With judo the amount of motor/physical work is minimal, it mostly work in using aggressor strength  Being able to prevent an aggression is constructive 

When i wanted to register to karate class, they told me i was too young and asked me why i wanted to register to karate class and told me i needed to get orange belt in judo before i can register in karate, like i was too young and too much using the dark side of the force, but judo can be nice for this

Otherwise, there is commando training, but it's more physical

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffpk0pOII7k Ghost in the shell - technique beat

[The People]

IMO, when the body was little it did the fight or flight, usually flight in the form of hiding and having someone else come forward. Eventually some got tired of flight and are learning to stand and fight. anger is a feeling not an action. teens take a while to figure that out(often they have the most anger) because we were raised with it being an action word. once a school VP said "I am very angry right now." before dx but we heard a voice say "no you aren't" because she was not yelling or threatening.

[Unity]

[Unity]

Quote:Eventually some got tired of flight and are learning to stand and fight.

A bit same here =)

Quote:anger is a feeling not an action. teens take a while to figure that out(often they have the most anger) because we were raised with it being an action word.

Well usually  i'm not considered as an angry person, i'm more dreamy/dissociative generally than angry, but it's clear i was not in a very good school, and got into plenty of mess, but i did martial art quite young about at 7/8 and all sport and martial art teacher know that you need not to fight with anger,and you must not hurt other peoples, so you need to gain a bit more psycho motor skill to have better self control on how to handle dangerous situation, and also train some good reflex of self defense etc

Quote:once a school VP said "I am very angry right now." before dx but we heard a voice say "no you aren't" because she was not yelling or threatening.

It's a bit the part i figured out with a thing on this site, with difference between rage and anger =)

Well from what i understood already on this site, there is really something linked to death threat, which trigger this dissociation thing, or it can happen in other circumstance, but in a normal situation if the person stop moving and being a threat nobody should attack them, so if this mecanism of dissociationis triggered it mean the threat is much bigger than the person, and it's this situation of death threat against which you are powerless that create the dissociation.

And it's clear what happen in those moment, i tried to analyze this with plenty of things, with cbt, or if it's anger, if it's panic, it's not anything of this, but it's clear it gives mega reflex and all.

Once there are three people who started to bother me, one had a stick, i grabbed the stick from his hand so quick etc, and even if i kept moralizing them during the whole bus trip, they didn't move a sh*t, one of them told i took cocaine but it's not this lol

And it's clear i'm not even angry or anything, there was a girl next to me she was not really scared by me, i was relatively calm, but like all sens highened,  it's the sense of danger, and potential life threat or something that create this state, it's sort of to prevent dissociation i guess idk. And it's clear my memory doesn't works very normally when there is this kind of things involved :p

But it's from the moment you lived a situation of death threat that psychological traumatism can occur and then this feeling of fear/aggressivity and the fight flight mecanism is not working totally well or awakened for nothing and it can be disturbing because it's clear it give lot of power and it can be scary and it's made for this normally to scare people but it's the dark side of the force if you don't use this only against someone who is threatening you or other person =)

I'm sure they speak about this kind of things in shamanism with demonic possession etc i've seen things about this related to dissociation =)

Anyway this kind of reaction generally for me it's triggered mostly in situation when there is already some kind of cruelty or cowardice involved, because it's in this situation that the mind feel this bigger power to fight a big threat who can be potentially lethal, and it's not dangerous against people who are not threaning someone in a unfair or coward/cruel manner like authority abuse or this kind of things.

Well idk it's just my reasoning for the moment lol