Question

[Tangled Web]

We were wondering what people's thoughts were around a type of therapy.........I don't know if there is an actual name to it or not........
But it is when the therapist takes on a role of being like a surrogate parent-teaches you things that you were never taught when you were growing up and as time goes by and you get more self reliant(not sure that is the right word here)-she lets go a little at a time.
What are people's thoughts on this?
I am wondering if it is wrong? Is it crossing that fundamental boundary between therapist and client? Will it confuse roles?

[mosaic]

i've never heard of this therapy before ... all i know is it doesn't feel right to me. it feels like what we WANTED our t to be, but i guess i believe my old t that it isn't really possible to "redo" parenting that we missed out on. it has the feel of a lot of boundary issue difficulties. i would be very cautious about embarking on such a program.

[Tangled Web]

I am concerned of the boundaries issues-we don't ever want to cross any boundaries.

This is something we have been looking for but never have admit it-the surrogate parent-and it was mentioned recently, so we decided to explore that.
Our T says that she will teach us the things our parents didn't-the way things are supposed to be and help unteach the things we learned. She will try to give us what we need and it is ok to rely on her and depend on her until we get to the point where we can do it for ourselves-she will teach us what healthy nurturing by demonstrating and will continue to do that until we can do that for ourselves also. So that is kinda like the reparenting think you mention-I think?

We saw our T today and discussed this with her and I don't know where we stand with this yet.
She said something interesting to us though-she is waiting for us to go to the next stage of therapy with her-we are still in the first stage of building the relationship and trust and she understands why and is understanding it takes us a lot of time and isn't something that is easily done for us and not pushing us in any way. The questioned she asked was if there was anything she could do to help us that she hasn't already done and the answer is no-I just don't know how to get to the next stage. And I am not a big fan of just jumping in and going on faith..............Is that the only way this can happen? I don't know........
I guess I have a lot of things to sort out.
TW

[mosaic]

i don't want to second-guess your t - she may be able to help you learn how things are supposed to be without crossing boundaries ... my old t helped me learn it - she didn't take on the role of surrogate parent though... it was something that we wanted her to do, and she ever so gently and kindly refused - and it was difficult for us for a time...

looking back at the work we did i can see how we grew and healed, and so that's my point of reference.

as far as getting to the next stage of therapy, all i can say is it happens over time as you continue to work with your t - it isn't something (IMVHO) that is like a light switch that suddenly you're in stage two or something. just keep going, and working on trust, and it will happen.

[Tangled Web]

Thank you so much for feedback mosaic-we really do appreciate it and value your opinions.
TW

[MakersDozn]

It doesn't feel right to us either. For one thing, we made an internal agreement very early on that we would not allow any outside people whatsoever to take on the role of a surrogate parent.

As we see it, this sort of dynamic automatically creates an imbalance of power with us on the losing end. We need to enter into every relationship as an equal. Granted, there are certain dynamics like boss-employee that have an innate *professional* power structure, but we're still equal as people.

These are our thoughts, but of course, your final decision is up to you.

MDs

[Tangled Web]

I think the way we are trying to spin this inside our head-IF she is willing to do this and it was her plan ALL along-which we recently discovered last week and spoke to her about yesterday-that she can do it within the boundaries that have been set up already.
I am wondering if she will be able to keep the different boundaries straight between us?
It bothers me that this was her plan ALL along and I asked her why she didn't tell me and she told me that she didn't know it was something I needed to know. She wasn't keeping it from me-it wasn't like that-I do know that. But it bothered me.
Another thing that bothered me-and this really bothers me-is that she told me that she doesn't pick up the phone when I call. There is a reason for that--I don't call often-and the one time I called her I expected to get her answering machine but she answered the phone instead. Well I panicked and told her-I didn't expect you to answer the phone-I thought I was going to get her answering machine. Well since then, I guess because of the anxiety that had caused she doesn't always answer the phone anymore. I understand that she trying to do what is easiest or more comfortable for me-but shouldn't I have a say in that? So we did talk about that and talked about some of the others things I have said like she did ask me before if it was ok if she called me if she was concerned about me and I had said yes but that doesn't mean I would answer the phone-I might respond to her in an email-so she took that as we are more comfortable doing the email thing then the phone thing and she never called. I took that she didn't call because she didn't feel the need to which in all honesty she didn't. We ended up being ok. BUT I didn't know that she wasn't going to call unless she REALLY felt the need to-to see if we were ok.

Something about ALL this feels wrong to me. If I am supposed to ask for what I need or tell her what I think honestly-shouldn't she be doing the same thing. I understand she is trying to be sensitive to my needs and make things easier for me and she is obviously listening to what I say and taking it literally-BUT that is NOT what we want. We don't want her to jump in and FIX the problems we have by changing things like that. Does that make sense? I am very confused and a little frustrated. So she is listening to me and what I say-which she should be doing and is taking things to a whole new level of literal for me. And she is modifying things or fixing them based on what I have said-but the solution doesn't include my input-she has taken it out of hands and it feels like she trying to take care of me-there is the problem. So maybe this is part of the surrogate parenting piece we have the problem with. Now that makes sense.

There are still missing pieces to this-Like I said I am trying to work through this inside my head and haven't gotten there yet. The thing is-we have NEVER been comfortable with reaching out and it has ALWAYS caused us great anxiety-but that doesn't mean that we don't want someone there for us either. I don't know how to change that inside-make it so that it is just ok to reach out and accept the help without the anxiety. But I do know that her changing things so try to remove that part isn't helpful to say the least. And I can't help feeling like she has a hidden agenda for us-and I am not saying that she is doing this to hurt us or that she has ANY malice in her actions at all because I know she doesn't and she is just trying to do what she thinks is helpful for us. I do understand that-but it still feels sneaky to me. And I don't know what to do about it-so I am trying to figure it out.
Thanks for listening.
Emma

[MakersDozn]

(10-04-2014, 12:33 PM)Tangled Web Wrote: Something about ALL this feels wrong to me.

We think that this says it all.

Hoping you do what's right for you.

MDs

[Tangled Web]

Thanks MDs-I just wish I knew what is right for us............

[orek]

This is hard. Our T that just retired didn't spell out everything your T is spelling out, and she wouldn't take on the role of parent overtly, but she ended up doing exactly a lot of that for us. The therapy relationship does take on an ASPECT of reparenting, in that it is a reparative relationship where your needs are the focus (and not the therapist's) and the relationship is one-sided in that regard, much as a parent/child relationship is (when healthy). Also, by experiencing the unconditional acceptance and warmth and validation at a deep level that you didn't receive as a child, you learn to internalize that eventually and "turn it" on yourself. So in that sense, a good T IS teaching you what you didn't learn from your parents. And that's good and healing and all that jazz.

Having said all that, this only works if the T hold the therapy relationship in perspective and within proper therapeutic boundaries. I don't understand why your T is burdening you with all this information. If she understands the therapy process, she should just DO it, not try to explain it to you. Also, her calling you if she's worried? That sets off all sorts of bells for us. I had a counselor who "got" all the right ideas around therapy, but who was needy and couldn't keep the safe boundaries that therapists need to hold for their clients. Your T sounds overly needy to me, but I could be wrong.

From having all sorts of experiences, good and bad, I'd say listen to own deep inner voice. There's a difference between fear and disappointment, and a deep sense that "something is wrong." Listen and be your own advocate. You are the expert on you, not your T.

I'm so sorry you're going through this confusion. Keep us posted, will you?

Hugs, if you want them, because I know this sucks royally. --orek

[Tangled Web]

Hi Orek. We always love your feedback . I need to clarify something though. My T didn't burden with all those facts. I asked her to explain it. It was me that started the whole conversation. I jumped in and told her what I was kinda looking for but thought it was wrong and low and behold she told me that was exactly what she was trying to do. That floored me and chaos broke out and we needed things spelled out for us to make sure we were on the same page. So we asked for the information and explanations. But otherwise it was just something she was trying to do.
The phone call thing was a little unnerving for me as well and it worried me. We prefer communication through email and she knows that. And she wasn't going to it but then we didn't like that feeling either so we left it as she could call but if we didn't answer we would email her-she was fine with that.
We did get more things clarified and found out she assumes things ALOT and because of our reactions to things she goes and changes things to try to make us feel more comfortable. We told her to stop it. Or if she was going to change things to at least talk to us about it first because our reactions to things she does doesn't mean we don't want her to do it. We need to get past the barriers from within inside and the reactions she sees is us going up against those barriers.
Like I told her one day it feels like we are going to just jump in and it scares the hell out of us. She said well it isn't like it is an deep dark abyss and I laughed and said well yes actually it is. That surprised her but that was because she assumed we were talking about our relationship and trust. She told me that we have know each other for awhile now and I know she wouldn't do anything to hurt us. I said I know that but that is not what I was referring to. You assume that this abyss I am talking about is about our relationship........it isn't. I have no idea what else can be inside my head or what more new information I am going to find. That is MY abyss. She understood then and things started to make sense to her. It is all about being on the same page and I find we are different pages some of the time. So clarification helps a lot. I finally have enough nerve to tell her what I think and I do believe we can work things out when something bothers us. That is a good feeling and has helped us a lot in the trust department. I even went as far as saying to her one day-OH this is about you and what you think- not me. She took it well and we talked about it. It was about her that day or those thoughts were any ways. It wasn't about her needs or anything like that. It is important for us to know her thoughts about things and the way she was telling us about that one day got us confused and we got it clarified. It helps. Now all we need to do is start telling her what we really think instead of her going on what she thinks we think. We are getting better at that too. Having this type of relationship with someone is very difficult work. And it is really hard. Thanks for the hugs!
TW

[orek]

Tangled, somehow I either missed this reply or have been away for that long. I'm glad I saw it because I was about to ask you if how it's going and if you found resolution. It sounds as if you did. Good for you for keeping up with the attempts at communication and clarification. That's brave, even if you feel it necessary. I'm often too afraid to ask something I "need" to know. Shame stops me. I need to get over that and risk more in therapy. I don't want it to take years to finally truly feel safe with our new T the way it did with our last one--who was excellent and perfect for us in helping us repair past damage other Ts have done as well as start some deep healing and validation in us.

Is it still going well? I think our new T will work out great. The insiders trust her more quickly than I expected and faster than upfronters can do, and she's great with the kids--well, the two that have come out since we started with her. Still too early to feel a deep, safe bond, but we're hopeful. We'll see.

Ciao for now.

[Tangled Web]

Well you have been gone awhile ! Things are going well with our T. She has been there for us, which still surprises me. I half expect her to turn and run the other way but she hasn't. This last week has been extremely difficult for us and we have been going through some things-acceptance mostly.........or trying to accept things. She invited us over on Friday to her office and we sat there in her presence and just bawled our eyes out. We let her see us in that state and it was SO HARD! But we did it. That was HUGE for us. She was comforting and it gave me this weird feeling inside. I don't know the name of it and never have been any good at putting names to feelings but it was like we wanted her there. We wanted her to see us and it was ok. Usually we hide ourselves away from everyone and don't let them see any of this stuff-we don't want people to see us like that-but not this time. And for some reason the words just flew out of my mouth without censoring anything-it was like for the first time in my life I was allowed to actually talk. It was an unbelievable feeling. I spent two hours with her-sitting there either crying or talking and sometimes just quietly sitting there while she sat with me. So our relationship has grown and is pretty good at the moment. The stuff inside is hard to deal with but I think I have someone now to help me and is there for me.

I am glad to hear that things are progressing well with your new T. I hope it continues and that you will find that bond that you are looking for when it is time to.
Take care my friend

[orek]

That's so cool, Tangled. Big kudos and big hugs, if you want them.

[Tangled Web]

Thanks Orek.