Making it all real?

[orek]

Hi, all, been gone a while. Really struggling since finding out my T's retiring in a year. Trying to stay positive and hopeful and working to get most out of time left, but truthfully it feels as if there's a roiling river of hot fear deep below just waiting for us to fall in and drown. We feel we failed in some respects, but that's a whole other topic. My question is this:

Through the seven-plus years with this T we've experienced healthy, balanced nurturing and respectful caring on deep levels through developing (slowly) trust with her and having our vulnerabilities and insiders met with consistent acceptance and positive regard. We've internalized some of that and hope to continue to do so. This is no small thing. But we still feel we're basically strangers to our history and, to a large part, to each other (esp. to some of the deeper insiders). Insiders have talked about (and in a couple incidences with very young ones, including a baby, demonstrated) what happened to them, but it doesn't feel much more real to upfronters and to many of the others than it did when we started. And it feels as if there's more, much more.

We know there's no magic trick for this, but we want to try anything we can to make this work in the time we have left. I don't think we have it in us to start yet again with another T after this one retires. (She was our 9th or something like that, and the first one to really work for us.) Does anyone have anything that worked for you to make the stories being told integrate into a part of your history, something that feels tangible, real, and something you can sink your teeth into and swallow--and, therefore, eventually digest and process? Anything at all? Any suggestion or feedback would be greatly, incredibly appreciated. Thanks for listening.

[nats]

hi orek,
wish we had something useful to say but we've largely failed the T process and have no stomach to continue. sounds like you've made huge progress, and you may find ways to work on the rest outside of T.

[Reilly]

Hi Orek.
Have you ever tried art (sketching, painting, etc) so that certain parts could have something tangible to view and process. Some of my son's parts were actually taught to draw (Like a professional artist) and recently decided to share their work with me and other parts. The images are quite revealing and graphic but it is his reality. One of my son's parts who did not experience the horror that others did and quite honestly didn't believe or care what others inside said they experienced was awakened to the harsh reality of all they endured. This enabled him to have empathy for everyone inside. Much progress was made I am happy to say.
Hope this helps.

[Tangled Web]

(01-06-2013, 07:42 PM)orek Wrote: Hi, all, been gone a while. Really struggling since finding out my T's retiring in a year. Trying to stay positive and hopeful and working to get most out of time left, but truthfully it feels as if there's a roiling river of hot fear deep below just waiting for us to fall in and drown. We feel we failed in some respects, but that's a whole other topic. My question is this:

Through the seven-plus years with this T we've experienced healthy, balanced nurturing and respectful caring on deep levels through developing (slowly) trust with her and having our vulnerabilities and insiders met with consistent acceptance and positive regard. We've internalized some of that and hope to continue to do so. This is no small thing. But we still feel we're basically strangers to our history and, to a large part, to each other (esp. to some of the deeper insiders). Insiders have talked about (and in a couple incidences with very young ones, including a baby, demonstrated) what happened to them, but it doesn't feel much more real to upfronters and to many of the others than it did when we started. And it feels as if there's more, much more.

We know there's no magic trick for this, but we want to try anything we can to make this work in the time we have left. I don't think we have it in us to start yet again with another T after this one retires. (She was our 9th or something like that, and the first one to really work for us.) Does anyone have anything that worked for you to make the stories being told integrate into a part of your history, something that feels tangible, real, and something you can sink your teeth into and swallow--and, therefore, eventually digest and process? Anything at all? Any suggestion or feedback would be greatly, incredibly appreciated. Thanks for listening.

Hi Orek. I can hear what you are saying here. I have also struggled with this for a long time. I am trying to find the words to describe the process I had to go through to accept what I was seeing at times as being real....I still struggle with this but I have accepted or integrated some stories from others into being part of my history also. I stumble all the time on the digesting part and processing it.
But there are things I can I accept as being real and know they happened.

I am not sure if this will apply to you and if it doesn't just disregard it.

I need to start at the beginning........
I found that when I made a conscious choice that I really wanted to heal and stuck to that decision it really helped me.
Every time I found myself denying things, or not accepting what I saw as a reality, I would ask myself What if.........What if it was real? What it isn't real? Then I decided it didn't matter. What mattered was it was "real" to the person who was holding it.
And I also realized the amount the energy I used to deny things was huge, so what if I used that energy to try to just listen. What harm could it do to just listen? After all it was their reality, not mine.
Mind you things are very separate for me. So I decided to have lots of conversations with people inside me, mostly they were the ones who would help me deny things and ask them the same questions I was asking myself. What if......
I started to challenge all the "internal rules" I have followed my entire life that have kept me safe, but now realize that they have kept me stuck and trapped.

So I started to listen to the others' stories ( not all of them mind you, some I still can't hear) and little by little I could hear more and more. The best way I can describe this, is when a friend is telling you something about themselves and how would you respond to them? That is how I would respond. It is just me and that person. All the "rules" or lessons that have been learned throughout the years are not present. That actually worked. Mind you I would get frustated because it would become too much and I still needed to function. But I found giving myself permission to say no, I can't do this right now and reminded them I needed to be heard also, kinda helped. It wasn't easy and many arguments erupted but I stood my ground.

It got very confusing for me. But what i tried to do was place myself in "their" shoes, in that instance. Instead of seeing them in the story they were telling, I would put myself in their instead, what I think I looked like at that particular age and change the face to resemble mine. That was when things got very confusing because there were times things would flip back and forth to the person who held the memory and me. (I hope this making sense).
Now there are times I can see myself in the memory all the time and not the other person.

This helped me make the memory mine, make it real! More real than just listening to it.
Now what I am working on is the feeling part of things. I haven't figured that one out yet. I am trying to connect the feelings to things but right now but it is making a real mess of things for me. I am not accustommed to feelings and don't do well with them.

I find I have become kinda like a sponge at times. That is how it feels for me. Some things that I hear or see from inside, I can be like a sponge and just have them become mine. The little things......it might just be a positive thought, or realization, I can make it mine. Then it builds up to more and more, and you can start to do that with your memories.....and you become like a sponge. It is a start in my opinion.

So in working with my therapist, I had alot of conversations within first, before I would repeat them to her out loud. For me I was constantly concerned about being called a liar, like I was so many times in my past. And I needed to make sure what I was saying out loud to her was in fact the truth. I still worry about that at times but not as much as I did before. Things do change in the story and I have explained that to her, which she seems to understand, which is helpful. And when you look at things, they do change. I think that is an important lesson and remind myself of that as often as I can. The way a 5 year old sees things, is so much different than how a 40 year old would sees things......but validating what that 5 year old sees can give you an immense relief inside. That is what I have found any ways.

I have been struggling so much lately with feelings. I find they really make a huge mess of things, a mess I can't seem to clean up or get it together. That is where I am at right now. Feelings just seem to not have any logic to them what so ever! At least when you see things you can make them into facts and facts are a concrete thing......feelings are not concrete and seem to be whissy washy and appear out of nowhere.

Thank you for posting this. I haven't been able to post here for awhile, and this post has brought me back.

I hope this was helpful.
Tangled Web
PS-Sorry this was so long, and I am sorry you are dealing with such a time crunch. I honestly couldn't imagine doing this under a time constraint.

[orek]

(01-09-2013, 02:33 PM)nats Wrote: hi orek,
wish we had something useful to say but we've largely failed the T process and have no stomach to continue. sounds like you've made huge progress, and you may find ways to work on the rest outside of T.

Thanks, nats. I'm counting on being able to find ways to work on healing once therapy ends--since even with the best possible outcome for this last year, we won't be "done" yet! It's good to know others have found ways. I appreciate your support, always.

[orek]

(01-09-2013, 08:35 PM)Reilly Wrote: Hi Orek.
Have you ever tried art (sketching, painting, etc) so that certain parts could have something tangible to view and process. Some of my son's parts were actually taught to draw (Like a professional artist) and recently decided to share their work with me and other parts. The images are quite revealing and graphic but it is his reality. One of my son's parts who did not experience the horror that others did and quite honestly didn't believe or care what others inside said they experienced was awakened to the harsh reality of all they endured. This enabled him to have empathy for everyone inside. Much progress was made I am happy to say.
Hope this helps.

Thanks for the idea, Reilly. Obviously it has had amazing results with your son! We're pretty lame with drawing, lacking the ability to even sketch anything much beyond stick figures, lol. But we have used art in the past, also collages, and this reminds me to broaden my view and options. There may be some inside who would prefer to tell their stories that way, good artists or no. I appreciate the feedback.

[orek]

(01-11-2013, 05:49 PM)Tangled Web Wrote: [quote='orek' pid='4991' dateline='1357515767']

Hi Orek. I can hear what you are saying here. I have also struggled with this for a long time. I am trying to find the words to describe the process I had to go through to accept what I was seeing at times as being real....I still struggle with this but I have accepted or integrated some stories from others into being part of my history also. I stumble all the time on the digesting part and processing it.
But there are things I can I accept as being real and know they happened.

I am not sure if this will apply to you and if it doesn't just disregard it.

I need to start at the beginning........
I found that when I made a conscious choice that I really wanted to heal and stuck to that decision it really helped me.
Every time I found myself denying things, or not accepting what I saw as a reality, I would ask myself What if.........What if it was real? What it isn't real? Then I decided it didn't matter. What mattered was it was "real" to the person who was holding it.
And I also realized the amount the energy I used to deny things was huge, so what if I used that energy to try to just listen. What harm could it do to just listen? After all it was their reality, not mine.
Mind you things are very separate for me. So I decided to have lots of conversations with people inside me, mostly they were the ones who would help me deny things and ask them the same questions I was asking myself. What if......
I started to challenge all the "internal rules" I have followed my entire life that have kept me safe, but now realize that they have kept me stuck and trapped.

So I started to listen to the others' stories ( not all of them mind you, some I still can't hear) and little by little I could hear more and more. The best way I can describe this, is when a friend is telling you something about themselves and how would you respond to them? That is how I would respond. It is just me and that person. All the "rules" or lessons that have been learned throughout the years are not present. That actually worked. Mind you I would get frustated because it would become too much and I still needed to function. But I found giving myself permission to say no, I can't do this right now and reminded them I needed to be heard also, kinda helped. It wasn't easy and many arguments erupted but I stood my ground.

It got very confusing for me. But what i tried to do was place myself in "their" shoes, in that instance. Instead of seeing them in the story they were telling, I would put myself in their instead, what I think I looked like at that particular age and change the face to resemble mine. That was when things got very confusing because there were times things would flip back and forth to the person who held the memory and me. (I hope this making sense).
Now there are times I can see myself in the memory all the time and not the other person.

This helped me make the memory mine, make it real! More real than just listening to it.
Now what I am working on is the feeling part of things. I haven't figured that one out yet. I am trying to connect the feelings to things but right now but it is making a real mess of things for me. I am not accustommed to feelings and don't do well with them.

I find I have become kinda like a sponge at times. That is how it feels for me. Some things that I hear or see from inside, I can be like a sponge and just have them become mine. The little things......it might just be a positive thought, or realization, I can make it mine. Then it builds up to more and more, and you can start to do that with your memories.....and you become like a sponge. It is a start in my opinion.

So in working with my therapist, I had alot of conversations within first, before I would repeat them to her out loud. For me I was constantly concerned about being called a liar, like I was so many times in my past. And I needed to make sure what I was saying out loud to her was in fact the truth. I still worry about that at times but not as much as I did before. Things do change in the story and I have explained that to her, which she seems to understand, which is helpful. And when you look at things, they do change. I think that is an important lesson and remind myself of that as often as I can. The way a 5 year old sees things, is so much different than how a 40 year old would sees things......but validating what that 5 year old sees can give you an immense relief inside. That is what I have found any ways.

I have been struggling so much lately with feelings. I find they really make a huge mess of things, a mess I can't seem to clean up or get it together. That is where I am at right now. Feelings just seem to not have any logic to them what so ever! At least when you see things you can make them into facts and facts are a concrete thing......feelings are not concrete and seem to be whissy washy and appear out of nowhere.

Thank you for posting this. I haven't been able to post here for awhile, and this post has brought me back.

I hope this was helpful.
Tangled Web
PS-Sorry this was so long, and I am sorry you are dealing with such a time crunch. I honestly couldn't imagine doing this under a time constraint.

Wow, Tangled Web, this is awesome. I want to print it out for myself so I can read and re-read it, maybe share it with my T. Would that be okay with you? I won't if you prefer not. Either way, I will read this over many times to try to absorb and incorporate the sentiment and ideas. I very much relate to what you've written about your fear of being called a liar, etc., and I am excited about the suggestions you've offered. I can see trying them and even having them work (hopefully)! You've offered many common sense, doable, helpful tips. And I'm glad it was "long"; I wouldn't have wanted any of it left out. I appreciate your thoughtfulness and time in responding.

[Tangled Web]

I am so glad it was helpful Orek. You can print this out and do whatever you want with it. It is ok with me.
Tangled Web

[orek]

(01-13-2013, 05:26 PM)Tangled Web Wrote: I am so glad it was helpful Orek. You can print this out and do whatever you want with it. It is ok with me.
Tangled Web

Cool ,thanks