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unable to explain - Tangled Web - 10-09-2013
I find myself unable to find the words to explain things to my T so she understands.
Today I was trying to tell her that the logic I have when I am NOT talking about my childhood is completely different and I understand and believe things so much differently than when I am talking about my childhood. It feels like there are two totally separate and completely different worlds inside me. There is the present world where I can understand logic and there is the past world that consists of my childhood that doesn't understand the logic. I can't bring the logic I have from this present world into my past world. And I don't know why..........And I wish the words I tried to use came out as easily as they are now when I was in her office with her.
Why do the same not rules not apply to me as they do when I am in my present world. I can have the strong beliefs that no child deserves to be abused or hurt by their parents but when I am standing in my past.....I can't do that. Things change and I don't how to explain it, it just all changes and I can't get the good beliefs I have inside the past. Anyone have any insight on this? Does any of this make sense?
Tangled
RE: unable to explain - Reilly - 10-09-2013
Hi Tangled Web.
What you say makes total sense. It got me thinking how my son is unable to use logic at this point. His childhood was so confusing and manipulated that he remains unable to view his world clearly, objectively, rationally, etc.
I think it is wonderful that you can use logic at times. I think that is great progress. Don't be too hard on yourselves when it comes to childhood. There is nothing logical about a child being harmed. The more I try and make sense of things the more confused and disoriented I become.
Hope you have a nice day!
RE: unable to explain - tweeter - 10-09-2013
(10-09-2013, 03:35 AM)Tangled Web Wrote: I find myself unable to find the words to explain things to my T so she understands._______________
Today I was trying to tell her that the logic I have when I am NOT talking about my childhood is completely different and I understand and believe things so much differently than when I am talking about my childhood. It feels like there are two totally separate and completely different worlds inside me. There is the present world where I can understand logic and there is the past world that consists of my childhood that doesn't understand the logic. I can't bring the logic I have from this present world into my past world. And I don't know why..........And I wish the words I tried to use came out as easily as they are now when I was in her office with her.
Why do the same not rules not apply to me as they do when I am in my present world. I can have the strong beliefs that no child deserves to be abused or hurt by their parents but when I am standing in my past.....I can't do that. Things change and I don't how to explain it, it just all changes and I can't get the good beliefs I have inside the past. Anyone have any insight on this? Does any of this make sense?
Tangled
Yes! Makes all the sense in the world, but is hard to get a handle on. For the sake of clarity, let me begin by saying that I'm a singleton, who had an intense relationship with one with many inside. I also studied martial arts (MA) with an eye to the more esoteric. I see aspects of MA as trained dissociation of more than one type. That is why one rule of the arts (not particularly well-followed) is so important: not being run by anger. Well, first one has to recognize anger in self, and to find its roots in denied f**r and h*lpl*ssn*ss, even when there are no words. Words ain't everything.
My interest is geared to establishing less restricted communication between the unconscious and rational minds. It is not generally something I can relate verbally in 3D, except when the process gels (like an epiphany) and I can write a sentence that amounts to a translation to the verbal. If I don't write it down right away, I forget. I'm left with feelings in realignment, which must be recognized and respected or I'm sunk. I am my own guinea pig (no dr*gs used).
The logic is different. Child logic is less verbal and close to our neurological/animal sp*r*t, which mankind often seeks to look down upon, in favor of a fanatical striving for mastery over anything. That is unfortunate. The adult needs to overcome this impulse to re-establish a balanced connection that should not have been broken, Ever. Multiples often feel this schism in themselves and in 3D with more immediacy. More sensitive singletons feel the presence of what is called the Inner Child, a part of ourselves that we're told we have to leave behind. Others deny this old brain phenomenon, which is not a personality in itself. I see it as the fundamental basis of a person's emotionality, which can get lost in the shuffle of the maturational process.
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"Why do the same not rules not apply to me as they do when I am in my present world. I can have the strong beliefs that no child deserves to be abused or hurt by their parents but when I am standing in my past.....I can't do that. Things change and I don't how to explain it, it just all changes and I can't get the good beliefs I have inside the past."
I think it's because even as adults are supposed to be loving caretakers, they don't own the contents of the child's psyche in the same way as the child does. This applies to inner and outer family. As hard as it is, you need to do more than "standing in my past." You can't do as you wish because you're in the child's mental landscape, not yours. This child's reality does not include the good stuff. It only includes what was. I don't know what it takes to make the transition you speak of, and then what to do about the grief the little will experience when understanding occurs. I don't know if my idea is relevant, but it was worth trying.
_______________________
So, adults can find themselves sad or angry and never get to the bottom of it. It's not the words, made up by an adult mind, that matter. It's being able to feel like the child I was, very different from being an adult, and accept and comfort the self. Cause we grow up, but inside we can suffer like little children, even if we're told we're too old to Feel that way. So can occur denial of nonverbal feeling, and its links to destructive emotions that can arise at the worst possible moments. On the positive side are the more easily expressed childlike wonder and amazement. Noted for this are people like Robin Williams and Gene Wilder, or any parent reading a fairy tale to a kid (and really getting into it).
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"It feels like there are two totally separate and completely different worlds inside me. There is the present world where I can understand logic and there is the past world that consists of my childhood that doesn't understand the logic. I can't bring the logic I have from this present world into my past world."
That's because you've got it turned around. You need to bring the logic of the past world (on its own terms) into the present. In doing this, I tend to not use the word "logic." I just let it happen. The way I am. Neurologically and in experience, they can be two different worlds, a schism encouraged by the dominant factions of society, which regard the aboriginal rooted as competition, and so make it ineffectual or destroy these people outright. It figures, what I've seen of the old ways sought to keep mankind more whole inside, and in relationship with the environment. The modern mind wishes to dominate the environment, not live with it. This has developed over time and is part of human nature defined by combat and mastery, which is expressed in different ways by different peoples.
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My aim is to be in touch with my deepest motivations, thereby establishing my true Intent(s) 24/7. Responsible in thought and action, for which I am accountable. Doesn't mean I follow all of society's rules............
It means my Intent is everything to me. At first, this applied to physical conflict situations, mock or, more rarely, for real. To varying degrees, I appreciated the importance of this in my emotional dealings, but over the past three years, this concern has become as much of a necessity in its own right. Because a major failure, about three years ago, all but destroyed me.
I don't know where cognitive psych. stands now in its quest to Prove the existence of the Emotional Unconscious, but it was at an impasse in the early 1990s, which makes sense. You are running the bases in the same ballpark, but from the correct vantage point.
My advice is not to dump the reasoning skills of adulthood, but rather, to unite with what you have inside, the Intuitive reasoning of a child (children) along with the experience that underlies it, and make judgments that respect both. They are separate, true. That's a good thing. But, there needs to be cooperation in function, and, imo, this is best accomplished by gentleness, acceptance, and responsible decision making.
Sometimes what looks responsible, isn't. Like when one defers to the will of another person's 3D irrationality to keep 3D peace. I've learned to not throw myself under the bus to maintain social order, or prevent another from having to face the reality of his existence, etc. These life situations escalate when one is denied what one needs, what is right for self. Funny, that I've seen times when I denied myself, what was right for me to try or be, it would have been best for everyone involved if I had not made an unwise sacrifice.
I've been very intuitive lately and am paying attention. I use adult logic, as it were, to test the strategy. Now, adult logic can be like statistics. You can find a way to indicate or justify almost anything it seems. I do as well as I can. I'm getting better at making sense of things. 3D people are showing their cards. Life is a poker game. There is such a thing as lying with integrity.
I know I've gone off topic several times. I'm hoping that with a different approach, suggested, you can find a way to communicate to T, after you've done what you need to for yourselves.
Feeling like I'm close to some sort of breakthru,
tweets
RE: unable to explain - Tangled Web - 10-09-2013
Tweeter this post is AMAZING!
Some of the thoughts we have......in response to it.......
The logic is different. Child logic is less verbal and close to our neurological/animal sp*r*t….. This is very true and I can see that much more clearly now.
That's because you've got it turned around. You need to bring the logic of the past world (on its own terms) into the present. In doing this, I tend to not use the word "logic." I just let it happen. The way I am. Neurologically and in experience, they can be two different worlds, a schism encouraged by the dominant factions of society, which regard the aboriginal rooted as competition, and so make it ineffectual or destroy these people outright
I guess in bringing the logic into the past is our way of trying to change the past, maybe…… To find some way of understanding why the things that were done to us were done.(Adult logic and child’s logic apply here only they are very conflicted which I understand why they are now) Trying to find some rational explanation and if we could do that then maybe we could see that our parents really did love us and somehow we have misinterpreted things.(struggling with denial and feeling like we have done something wrong to deserve this through the child’s eyes) Trying to change the things that went wrong go right…….Isn’t that every child’s dream?
As hard as it is, you need to do more than "standing in my past." You can't do as you wish because you're in the child's mental landscape, not yours. This child's reality does not include the good stuff. It only includes what was. I don't know what it takes to make the transition you speak of, and then what to do about the grief the little will experience when understanding occurs. I don't know if my idea is relevant, but it was worth trying.
I agree with you, standing in the past is not enough now. That makes so much sense to us! Very well put and thank you for the words we could not find, you described it perfectly here.
Bringing the past out into the present…..looking at it now through their eyes and just talking off the cuff here but thinking what that would like that. They would have to come out and talk about that……and in order to do that there would have to be some acceptance and not judging what they say or trying to correct their thoughts on the matter. In correcting their thoughts is like denying them their reality and that is what I guess we jump to right away. We need to let them have their reality and listen to it and understand it, accept it, maybe even validate it before we try to change it. Does that make sense? I think it might. So it looks like we are missing a whole bunch of steps in this process and just jumping to the end……..trying to change something that really isn’t ours to change and in doing that we are invalidating their experiences. No wonder why they never want to talk……..
We now have a lot more things to think about but at least the direction we are going in fits and makes a heck of a lot more sense to us. Thank you.
RE: unable to explain - Tangled Web - 10-09-2013
(10-09-2013, 11:43 AM)Reilly Wrote: Hi Tangled Web.
What you say makes total sense. It got me thinking how my son is unable to use logic at this point. His childhood was so confusing and manipulated that he remains unable to view his world clearly, objectively, rationally, etc.
I think it is wonderful that you can use logic at times. I think that is great progress. Don't be too hard on yourselves when it comes to childhood. There is nothing logical about a child being harmed. The more I try and make sense of things the more confused and disoriented I become.
Hope you have a nice day!
Thanks Reilly. I really do understand the confusion and how it can totally make your head hurt to the point of not having anything make sense anymore. Hope you have a great day also
